A year ago appeared "La Familia Grande".VSamille Kouchner, daughter of Bernard and the jurist and feminist activist Évelyne Pisier, told incest perpetrated on her twin brother when he was a teenager by their stepfather, Olivier Duhamel, political scientist and professor of law.With exceptional delicacy and strength, this lawyer and mother of two lifted a fact of society whose extent no one suspected.The book, today published in Pocket Format at Points, caused a blast.Hundreds of testimonies swept over social networks, with the hashtag #metooinceste.At the same time that we discovered a family broken by drama and silence, we discovered a country gangrenous by incest.Since then, the law has changed, a commission of inquiry has been appointed, but VSamille?She who had the obscure hope that literature will make things happen, how did she experience this year?Maintenance with hypersensitive, hyperlucid, always a notch above the fray.

SHE."And my heart is submitted, but is not resigned": you wrote these words from Victor Hugo in highlighting to "La Familia Grande".A year later, what is your state of mind?

VSamille Kouchner.I could answer with another sentence from Victor Hugo in "Les Misérables": "surprise the disaster with the little fear that it makes us".We talked a lot about courage but, for me, this book was not so much a story of courage, rather the will to grasp a disaster and do something.Today, I feel like I have won this bet a little.

SHE.But was fear, wasn't that what you most strongly felt at the end of the book?

VS.K.Yes, and it is always so.Fear accompanies me constantly, also guides me to try to do things with conscience and balance.At the same time, I felt such support that I manage to tell myself that there is something universal and just in my approach.

SHE. VSomment avez-vous vécu cet immense retentissement ?

VS.K.At first, I was very fragile, my way of protecting myself was not to read anything, no article or comment.My editor was perfect, she told me just what I had to know.For months, I only looked at my children, my brothers and my cousins, the daughter and the son of my aunt, Marie-France. VS'était très douloureux parce que c'était ma famille qui était mise en lumière, les gens que j'aime qui étaient soumis à des jugements pas très constructifs.Even if I was responsible, I also wanted to protect my children.

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SHE. VSomment ont-ils vécu cette déflagration ?

VS.K.They gave me an unimaginable force.My 16 year old daughter read "La Familia Grande", my 13 year old son, no, he will do it when he wants to.We spent a lot of time together, a lot talked about, because, for them, as for me, family ties were really shaken. Leur enjeu, c'était de voir comment ils faisaient avec leur grand-père, leur oncle, leurs cousins… VSomment leurs propres relations perduraient, transformées.But I was keen to show them the power of literature: when things go very badly, they can also be sublimated.And, above all, I wanted to give them the world to the place.

SHE.What do you mean ?

VS.K.We are in a system that works on the head.We, adults, today, we should all have increased collective vigilance towards children, we should blame ourselves for not seeing, not to hear, not to denounce.But, in fact, it does not happen at all like that.We keep saying that we can do nothing if the victims do not file a complaint, but, as soon as they do it, we fall on them.We blame them for not having spoken earlier, we suspect their testimonies, we say attention, we will make expertise, maybe they are crazy!I do not understand why all this is not the protection of the general interest, it is not a private interest that we protect when we protect children.Nor do I understand why the public authorities do not immediately be a reflection on a collective protection system to be rethought completely.A child who is bad, who is growing, who is mutic, who no longer sleeps, it shows, it is the responsibility of adults.And yet today the system is based only on the day the child gives voice.On this famous release of speech ...

SHE.How do you question it?

VS.K.I don't like this expression so much, first of all because I find it ultra-culprising for the victims and, then, because the liberation does not only come from speech, the path is much longer and steep.I receive a lot of messages saying to me: "What courage to have broken the silence, I do not dare!But courage is not to have spoken, it is to have survived it all, not to have punctured it.And then, we're talking, but it's not better right away, it's wrong.And again, I am an indirect victim, but the direct victims, when they start to tell, they relive everything, the images, the atmospheres, the odors, the gestures, everything comes back, and it's atrocious.And I, in all that I am told, I do not see any immediate and psychological care to listen to them, accompany them so that this word is really a liberation.

SHE.Precisely, how are your brother?

VS.K.I still don't want to talk to it, it has to all stop ...

SHE.What has this book changed in your relationship with him?

VS.K.I think it will take years to find out.The only constant, the only evidence is the love we have for our mother.With our big brother and our cousins, the children of Marie-France, we are unwavering by the love we experience for our mothers.Right now, I have in mind the poem of Éluard: "You dreamed of being free and I continue you".On this, we meet all five, even if for them too the year was terrible, and I am sorry.

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SHE. VSar votre livre était aussi une déclaration d'amour à votre mère.A year later, has your gaze on her changed?

VS.K. VSertaines réactions l'ont mise en cause, je trouve ça nul, j'en ai marre qu'on s'en prenne aux femmes et aux mères tout le temps. VS'est précisément ne pas comprendre l'inceste, ne pas comprendre qu'on reste dans un lien d'amour. VSela ne me fait aucun bien d'entendre du mal de ma mère.She was wonderful, she remains wonderful, she did as she could with us, I do not excuse her but she is my mom.When I hear: "We thought it was a big woman, but in fact she was excruciating", I replied: "If, it was a big woman and if it was a brilliant mother".Faced with the suffering of her own children, I find that she did not take the right way, and I do not wish to be wrong.She was wrong, certainly, but that doesn't say anything about her. VSela n'en fait pas une coupable, pas plus que mon père n'est coupable.

SHE.He never spoke, do you understand it?

VS.K.This is the strength of love, I find it extremely respectful of having said nothing even when it was criticized not to react.He doesn't pretend, he knows.That what I tell is true, that it was not there when it was necessary, that he assumes his responsibility. Et il me dit : « VS'est magnifique ce que tu fais », et je crois même qu'il est fier. VSela me permet de me sentir protégée.When we were traumatized as a child, then, we permanently doubt, do I exaggerate, do I really hurt, is it so serious?My father said to me today: "Yes, you are in pain, yes, it was hard, but yes, I'm here".And that changes everything.

SHE. Votre belle-mère, VShristine Ockrent, était assez maltraitée dans votre livre, comment a-t-elle réagi ?

VS.K.It is treated precisely, in the book.We got very close and, if we talk about reparation, then yes, she had extraordinarily reparative words. Je n'ai plus de maman, je n'ai plus de tante qui était comme une maman aussi, VShristine, elle est là.I don't have a lot of women around me, it counts.

SHE.Have you received other repairing words from those you called "La Familia Grande"?

VS.K.Yes, those who have always behaved well, when they learned, were very present.They were hyper-sewn, we must not forget that we are talking about their friend, their intimate friend, it was very violent for them too. VSet aspect « fait divers », on étale la vie de gens un peu connus, ils auraient pu avoir envie de le fuir, de prendre leurs distances, ce n'est pas ce qu'ils ont fait.When we highlight a particular case in light, we crush the word of other victims, and that is what I found frightening and guilty.

SHE. VSette déflagration, ce déferlement de #metooinceste sur les réseaux sociaux, comment les avez-vous vécus ?

VS.K.I really didn't expect it.I received hundreds of letters and emails, women of sometimes 80 years old write to me: "Incest rotted with my life and I did not understand that it was", and in S 'Addressing me, they put words for the first time on a silence.Many mothers and grandmothers tell me that they are trying to protect their child victim of a family man, and that they can't do it. VS'est quelque chose dont je ne me rendais pas compte, ce combat de femmes se heurtant à la machine judiciaire.To their word, we object to the parental alienation syndrome, this scientific pseudo-thetheory used by judges, which suggests that at the time of separations mothers invent or instrumentalize sexual violence to have custody of their child.We walk on the head !Sometimes their children are placed because they had the courage to say the inexpressible.Faced with this suspicion, in addition to everything, I do not know how these women have the strength not to collapse.

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SHE.Have you drawn a feeling of reparation from this collective awareness that your book is born?

VS.K.If we wait for immediate consolation or repair, we put sticks in the wheels ... but it still happened something unexpected.When one is the victim of in-heading or a sexual assault, or like me indirect victim of silence, you are reified, you become an object, you no longer have a place in the social bond.May my book be welcomed in this way that gave me a place in men and women when I had excluded it myself. VSe changement de statut ne répare pas la mort de ma mère, mais il répare le lien, je parle et on m'écoute.

SHE.Do you have the feeling of having found your place in society?

VS.K.Yes, among those around me, my family, my friends.Today, when I'm not doing well, when I suddenly feel an irrational fear, I can talk about it, we can even laugh together. Mes proches sont capables de me dire : « VSamille, tu sais d'où ça vient, c'est l'hydre, mais on est avec toi ».They really know me, I am no longer the object-sourire, the object-work, the mother of perfect family, I am a subject.And, with my children, we are in a much more true link.

SHE.Have all these messages and testimonies give you the feeling of responsibility?

VS.K.Yes.It took me a while to accept it, I did not want to start my strength first but, today I am better, I assume it.I am not an expert, I only have my story that I make public as a passive witness.My anxiety is to do things wrong, to miss someone's trouble, not to account for it with.I also realized that, in the fight against sexual violence against minors, many associations are doing a remarkable job, I am not alone.I would like to make things happen by making people understand that incest is not reduced to a father, a grandfather, a cousin who forces a child.Incest is much more pernicious, and that's what you have to warn young people.Yes, ils peuvent avoir du désir – on ne le découvre pas –, seulement les adultes n'ont pas le droit de jouer avec.You have to protect children by telling them that, whatever happens, whatever happens, it is not their fault.

SHE.What did all these testimonies make you discover on your own experience?

VS.K.Now I know I couldn't let everything stand on my brother, it was up to me to move.I try not to blame me, but I would like tomorrow, when an adult suspects something, he does not say to himself: if this child or this teenager says nothing, it's okay!That he speaks the adult, that he does not wait for the victim to do so.I had no one in my entourage to who to entrust me.My mother was destroyed by her mother's suicide, my aunt Marie-France too, everyone was so bad in my family that I did not want to add more.And I did not find a school nurse, a teacher, a parent of a friend ... I don't blame anyone in particular, the company was not organized for that. Faire en sorte que les adultes soient plus vigilants, que notre société développe des institutions en lesquelles les enfants aient confiance… VS'est cela qu'il faut changer.

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SHE.You are a lawyer, what did you think of the changes made to the law?

VS.K. VS'est très bien d'avoir élevé les seuils de consentement, mais tout reste à faire. VSomme VShristine Angot, je pense qu'une présomption de non-consentement jusqu'à 18 ans n'a pas de sens, on ne viole pas sa fille à 18 ans et demi non plus ! Et cette notion de consentement des enfants n'a pas de sens non plus pour moi. VS'est pour cela que le titre du livre de Vanessa Springora était si fort et si intelligent, c'est quoi, le consentement d'un enfant ? La seule chose dont je sois certaine est qu'il faut affirmer haut et fort que le désir pervers d'un adulte envers un enfant est condamnable, point barre.It also seems to me that the family as it is described in this law-the father, the mother, the children-does not resemble the family of today, in which century do we live?All this was quickly done, it is good that it exists, but it is obviously not enough.

SHE.And what is your opinion on the prescription?

VS.K.I don't have a clear opinion, I fluctuate.I do not know whether to establish an imprescriptibility, but I know that it is necessary to take into consideration traumatic amnesia. VSar c'est un fait scientifique documenté et reconnu.But the presidential debates begin and not a word on these subjects after the year we have spent!

SHE.And he, Olivier Duhamel, what did you think of his attitude?

VS.K.No sign of life, but fortunately.

SHE.What if he called to ask you forgiveness?

VS.K. VSe n'est pas à moi qu'il doit des excuses, enfin si, aussi.There are people who need a conviction, which I understand perfectly, but for me, it was not the stake.

SHE.What was, your stake with hindsight?

VS.K.I started the book by writing that I had lost my mother a thousand times but that this time, I did not spot her, I finished it with a letter that I addressed to her beyond the grave and, today,I have the right to be my mother's daughter.We grew up in this "great family" where everyone was linked, we almost no longer knew who were the children of whom, my mother had lots of protected, supposedly, but no, in fact it is me the girlof my mother, and it makes me feel crazy to say it.Incest is a crime of parentage that cuts you off from your parents, well I am again the daughter of my parents, it's a little late but it repairs.